What They Died For – Lost Ep 6.16

While Locke devises a new strategy, Jack’s group searches for Desmond.

Written by Edward Kitsis & Adam Horowitz & Elizabeth Sarnoff
Directed by Paul Edwards

Naveen Andrews as Sayid
Nestor Carbonell as Richard Alpert
Emilie de Ravin as Claire
Michael Emerson as Ben
Jeff Fahey as Frank Lapidus
Matthew Fox as Jack
Jorge Garcia as Hurley
Josh Holloway as Sawyer
Daniel Dae Kim as Jin
Yunjin Kim as Sun
Ken Leung as Miles
Evangeline Lilly as Kate
Terry O’Quinn as Locke
Zuleikha Robinson as Ilana

Guest Cast
Michelle Rodriguez as Ana Lucia
Mira Furlan as Danielle Rousseau
Alan Dale as Charles Widmore
Tania Raymonde as Alex
Mark Pellegrino as Jacob
Dylan Minnette as David
Sheila Kelley as Zoe
Kenton Duty as teenage boy
Wendy Pearson as Nurse Kondracki
Ashlee Kyker as student
Ernesto Lopez as LAPD cop

92 thoughts on “What They Died For – Lost Ep 6.16”

  1. My sawyer is awake!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That makes my day.

    However, I am screwed as I will be on a red eye flight to Miami that leaves at 9:10, so I will miss Lost. I will catch up with you guys tomorrow. Namaste!!!!

    Please try to remember that we will NOT be getting answers to everything.

  2. never mind he say’s “I killed them didn’t I”.

    this might be proving one of my ideas to be right. Sawyer will blame himself for the deaths on the sub and start thinking more like Jack is currently.

    Do the people who died on the sub get billing in this episode because they are in the episode or because the contract probably states they get star billing. I’m guessing they are done at least for this episode.

  3. adam, thank you for telling what Sawyer says! I couldn’t understand a single word from him.

    I whish they could have subtitle/text to every episode (and sneak peek)! We are so many people that have problem understanding spoken english but find it much easier to read it!!

  4. – NAGC, the way i see it, like i posted some time ago, and now based on the latest episode, i believe both Jacob and MIB need replacements.

    The fake woman was both island protector and impersonated by smokie. She gathered these roles in one person, and split them when she saw they were twins.

    But both the island protector and the smokie are part of the security system of the island.

    So i believe Jacob needs someone to succeed him, and MIB has to be replaced too.

    My crazy bet is Jack for Jacob and Aaron for MIB.

    – About Jacob being a white smoke, i really dont think so.

    But if he was as you said, then he was Christian off the island, and thats the reason the smoke detector went off, cause he was also smoke.

    – What i cant still figure out is the whole cabin stuff.

    If MIB/Smokie was Christian, then it was MIB in the cabin, and he was the one who called for help to Locke, and the one who told him to move the island, look for Ms, Hawking, etc.

    Buttttttt, if he was trapped there, how come the monster kept showing up all the time?

    And why did the cabin move? Does it have to do with time travel?

    We know MIB can time travel, since we saw him in the well with Locke in Christian’s shape in a time before 1867, cause the statue was intact.

  5. jonathan, maybe you’re right about that even MIB needs replacement. But I don’t like that theory and believe it’s wrong.

    “The fake woman was both island protector and impersonated by smokie. She gathered these roles in one person, and split them when she saw they were twins.”

    – This is a nice interpretation! The best explanation I’ve seen and I hope it is true.

    – Sorry to say it.. but it has to be John Locke as replacing Jacob! After the Smokie part of Flocke is pushed away (or killed) and Jack fixed him. And probably reborn in the light cave.

    – You are right about the smoke detector could have went off even for a white smoke, of course. I did miss that possibility. But I can’t get why Jacob would pretend to be Jacks dead father off the island!? It makes no sence, does it? Jacob didn’t have to pretend like that? What was the purpose???

    – About the “cabin stuff” I have no idea! My knowledge about that is on to low level. I should rewatch it (and all the seasons again and again.. 😉 ).

    – So many questions left.. I have not decided if I will see the last two episodes on Sunday. In Sweden we are eight episodes behind so maybe I will join my country men (= not seeing the finale now on Sunday). If so, I have time to rewatch Lost again.. and spend a thousand more hours of this SHIT!! LOL!

    BTW, JUST BEFORE JACOB DIED HE WHISPERED “THEY ARE COMING”, TO FLOCKE (WHO WAS SUPRISED). That suggests they are somehow together which is in line with your theory about them both protecting the island. He actually gave MIB a warning.

  6. Notagoodcandidate- Post 5– thanks for the laugh. Actually I think the pilot is the guy who got mauled 20 minutes into the first episode!!!! I would not fly with burn-out hippie lapidus if my life depended upon it!!


  8. First impression:

    Great Episode. Sort of a preparation for the finale.

    i dont think i liked Jacob’s explanation of why he chose them. Kind of lame. Expected more.

  9. SPOILERS****
    Thank you for the link it worked perfectly. It was an excellent episode. Widmore getting his was unexpected and did anyone think Ben wouldn’t turn coat in a heartbeat you’ve got to be kidding me.

    It was good to see Rouseau and what a lame part for Anna Lucia I guess this means Juliette is Jack’s ex.

    The explanation from Jacob was simple maybe lame but either way I found that it worked. We did get an answer tonight on whom was going to protect the island but I still don’t think it’s over.

    It was kind of sad that Jacob is moving on. Also, did MIB kill Richard or just knock the crap out of him?

  10. good to be back… I haven’t really had time to even catchup on what all of the family has been saying here… been completely busy…. sucks….

    eitherway… thank you for the welcome back Jonathan.

    Richard… Why are you still watching isn’t Sun gone;-)

    Love…love…love…. is in the air for the finally!!!

  11. I think Jack will fail at stopping smokie and Hurlly will somehow have to do it. They made too much of a point of him saying, “glad its not me”.

    Sunday cannot come soon enough!

  12. I liked this episode.

    2 thoughts:

    1. Ben was noble in the end. He hung around at great risk to himself (instead of running through the jungle) to figure out Smoke Monster’s plan and do what he could to sabotage/affect it (just like Richard, but Ben doesn’t have immortality backing him up). Sure he sold out Widmore and co., but he had to have known that SM would figure out where they were. So I think he bought his trust, sacrificed who he needed, and is now the inside man. My theory is that he shot Widmore to prevent him from spilling his guts (albeit a little too late, though he might have prevented some stuff from being said), and came up with a compelling reason (“he doesn’t get to save his daughter”) that sounded evil enough that SM would buy.

    2. Best line (I’m sure I’m misquoting a little) is Jacob’s: “It’s just a line of chalk on the wall Kate, the job is yours if you want it.” Why such a good line? Because Jacob was saying, hey, don’t over-read too much into things (which lots of viewers also do). Just roll with the punches.

  13. RLost good analogy of the chalk line.

    I can see where Ben maybe the inside guy but I can also see where he still wants the island and is pissed that he never got to see Jacob.

    Wouldn’t it be odd if Ben turns out to be Jack’s Richard. That Ben could be afraid to die to pay for his sins and now he needs to be on the island forever.

    Also does anyone here also think that Richard gets to go to heaven? In his character they made a big deal that there wasn’t enough time for him to have repentance surely 250+ years has given him enough time.

  14. – Desmond is now himself a failsafe key, like the one he turned on the Swan to contain the eletromagnetism that was ”leaking”.
    So its confirmed that Smokie is a manifestation of the island eletromagnetism, and Desmond is the measure of last resort to keep it at bay.

    – How come Ben could kill Widmore? Wasnt it against the rules?
    They have to explain that.

    – Why did young Jacob appear to Hurley? Why not Jacob himself?

    – Why everyone all of a sudden could see Jacob?

    – Why Ben thinks he was the one summoned by the monster? Does it have to do with him being in the temple pool like Sayid?

    – Is this concert a piano one or the Driveshaft gig in Widmore’s house?

  15. Just like the numbers on the computer ( same as the candidates) kept the eletromagnetism at bay, the candidates while alive keep smokie on the island.

    If the numbers/candidates fail, then whats left is the failsafe key ( Desmond – 108 – ) to contain the monster (eletromagnetism).

  16. Sorry guys, couldnt sleep.

    I guess the ghost of young Jacob came up because the only way for adult Jacob to materialize and be seen by everyone was to burn his ashes.

  17. Lastly, all this time they spend (like 25 mins each of these last episodes) trying to compare the sideways with the

    island life is just a waste, theres barely any info on it, yeah we get it, they all end up seeing each other, the

    whole fate/coincidence stuff, but its a waste, lets face it, they could get that idea to us in 20 mins on the last

    episode or just one of these and we would still get it…we are not that slow (at least im not)

    They should of used this time to answer more stuff, do not introduce new characters (like zoe, just to be killed) i

    think this is a result of poor editing/managing, the final cut could of been much better..at least i want to

    believe that instead of some ppl that are starting to feel they had no clue of what to tell..

  18. Sorry this is the first part of my post:

    I dont know if its just me, but all these “answers” are just kinda of lamme and simple.

    They complicated things so much, all this building up, and now we get things like, jack’s anti climatic acceptence

    of the island guarding..Widmore’s anti climatic death’ (we still dont know anything about the rules, about how he

    got there in the first place, he said jacob invited him, again its kinda of lamme to me)
    I could go on an on, we already knew why those candidates were chosen, the whole “flawed” speach was kinda of lamme

    also, i already knew that since the last time they were kidnaped by the “others”, if i recall correcly, ben told

    them that.. or someone.. but im pretty sure we already knew that, and thats the main reason why it was lamme..

  19. good episode

    I agree with the fact that this episode was the start for the final. Jack accepting Jacob´s offer and Desmond being mentioned as the “failsafe key”. It could be that Desmond is the one who has to go into the light-cave to come out as whatever, but with the power to kill the smoke monster, possibly as a white smoke? At least this is a possible way i could imagine!

    The light-cave is there where Jack woke up after the first crash, right? If yes, weren´t there hints his father was around there? However, it seems the cup of “blessed” wine/water gives the people the ability to see the hidden light-cave, MiB never got to drink “blessed” water so he never could find it anyway!

    It was strange to see Widmore got so easily shot by Ben, i thought there are rules? Probably this should mean the island was done him!! ..it was alreaday time for him to go..

  20. I thought it was a really good episode. The answers we got were quick and lame though I agree with you.

    The explanation of the names on the walls as it’s just names on a wall seemed lame. So that whole thing meant nothing and anyone could be a candidate? Lame

    The way Jack accepted, also lame. Could have made it a bit more exciting. After all we have been building up to that for 2 seasons…

    I need a better explanation of the light, the rules, the “job” as candidate and what happens if MIB gets off the island.

    Now I’m back to thinking that MIB is bad and I might have been right on Old Linus, he seems to be converting to the dark side!

    Could it be that Locke in the sideways world is manipulating like desmond is but for the MIB team.

    Jack is doing the surgery on Jack, so If I’m right by fixing Locke’s back I think this will make Locke on the island paralyzed and that’s how he is going to be killed.

    Is richard dead? that was also lame.

  21. Sorry about my messed up post, it wasnt letting me post at all and messed up my paragraphs for some reason, and the content is a bit harsh, but at this point, the answers (in the form of new questions) are not fiting my needs tbh, i dont want everything answered but these things i mentioned, and those that Adam mentioned are crucial to the core of Lost’s story and it was handled in an amateurish way if you ask me.

    I already watched it again, and i stand my ground, unless they step it up a LOT on this last hours (2h left?) it is going to be a lamme trip..

  22. Hey folks. I just watched the episode, and I know the finale will be awesome. My faith in the writers had been restored!!!!!!

    I will comment more later, but I agree with Unlost that Ben is playing smokey. I mean that guy was like a friggin robot after he found out that Alex was buried. And, now that he knows that flocke wants to destroy the island, THERE IS NO WAY BEN WILL GO FOR THAT, AS HE WANTS IT.

    Also, I totally called the convergence at the jail!!!!

    I need to process and will post later.

  23. One more thing:

    JASON: WELCOME BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!! We need you as we come to the end!!!!!

    Richard7669- Are you in one piece????? Sawyer looked kind of good!!!

  24. I agree that there needs to be something unexpected at the end… where Jack fails and someone else has to take over. But if that doesn’t happen, then I think Jack now has the power to “release” Richard after serving his pennance.

    Then I’m thinking one of three things has to happen….
    1) Sawyer becomes the new Smokey. I hope this doesn’t happen, but he is the one character with the most similar drive to get off the island like MIB. And Smokey made sure to recruit Sawyer.

    2) Sawyer sacrifices himself to kill Smokey and save his friends… and redeeming himself.

    3) Sawyer becomes the new Richard. Let’s face itpredicting (more like hoping) that Sawyer becomes the new Richard as his pennance b/c… well… the likeable son-of-a-gun has done a lot of things that he needs pennance for.

  25. – Solid arguments of Flocke to convince Ben to help him:

    first: – if you help me the island is yours.

    later: – all i want is to sink the island.

    – About Ben killing Widmore, and the rules: that meeting of Ben with Widmore when they talked about the rules and not killing each other, i think it was before Widmore had Alex killed by Keamy, so he broke the rules at the time.

    Something i read and is very true:

    ”I think one of the biggest questions that people are going to ask about Lost as it ends is, “Why did the story have to play out this way?” In other words, if Jacob really brought these people here to be his replacement, why didn’t he come to them a lot sooner, rather than letting them run around and kill each other for 100 or so days? The meta-answer is that Jacob didn’t appear for the same reason why nobody on the show ever talked to each other about anything important: Because that would’ve made for a very short, far less fun series”-Noel Murray.

  26. Mark – I like the idea of Hurley eventually being the one to take over for Jacob. There has to be something unexpected b/c the whol acceptance by Jack was predictable, weak, and lame. Like someone said, this was obvious a LONG time ago. Almost too obvious.

    OOOH! This crazy thought just came to me….

    By the way… can anyone explain (I’m sure it’s been explained before and I missed it) what the ROLE of the smoke monster is. We were originally told (I think by Ben) that it was a security system. Like it was there to protect the island. Then people suspected that FMother turned into smokey to kill that camp of people and destroy the well. So then why does it now want to destroy the island? Is it carrying the soul of MIB and therefore it’s MIB/FLocke that wants to leave and is using the smoke monster for it unintended purpose.

    Could it be that Ben was right. The smoke monster is a security system… or the manifestation/heart of the island and it can be summoned by the protector, which was FMother and supposed to be Jacob. But when Jacob push MIB down the hole, he actually corrupted the smoke monster with MIB soul, and NOT the other way around. Meaning, smokey and MIB became one, and that was what FMother was afraid of. Maybe there is no replacement for smokey. Like many people have said, it’s been there forever. They gotta kill or release MIB’s soul from the monster. And they can only do that by getting it back to the light cave. Then Jack would be like FMother. Protector of the island, and able to summon smokey.

    No that’s far fetched by NOT impossible. And if I;m right on this…. then it’ll be a first. LOL!!

  27. 4. A great episode!

    8. There is still a possibility for Jacob to be visible for Hurley later on, I think. But probably it will not happen because Jack is the new Jac(k)ob now (for the moment..)

    15. It look likes I was wrong when I said John Locke would replace Jacob. But I don’t think so.. I still think it will be the newborn John Locke!

    16. What about you Ben? WTF are you doing? When Ben killed Widmore I think it was against the rules. Remember when Alex was killed. It was also against the rules. My wild guess here is that the rules for Ben&Widmore aren’t of the same “type” as those for Jacob&MiB. They are kind of “weaker”.

    23. We All Everybody saw how Flocke was threatening Widmore (“I’ll kill Penelope if you don’t.. “). I beleave there is a huge risk that he will do that again.. but this time with Jack.. (“I’ll kill KATE if you don’t.. “).

    42. Any prediction about what music they will play on the concert in the sideline world? I think Daniel Faraday, Jack’s son and Charlie will be playing together (well, maybe Charlie in Drive Shaft). AND WHEN THE FINALE EPISODE IS CLOSE TO THE END, THEY WILL PLAY LOST MUSIC AND THEMES!

    108. I’ll go “all in” for a happy ending for all the losties! Black Smokey will be destroyed (sorry for MiB whose life has been a real HELL on the island. Poor guy!). Jack will fix John Locke. And in the light cave he will be reborn.. and Jack will leave the responsability to John Locke of protecting the island. John is better suited for that than Jack, and he wants it more.

  28. It’s going to be Jack and Ben on the island
    Jack and a newborn Locke
    the twist ending
    Jack and Desmond (see you in another life brother)

    i think Jack is going to keep the role unless the island does get sunk, as we have seen in the season premiere episode. Still a lot to go.

    I have a renewed positivity about the writers. Even though the scene at the bondfire was really weak and forced. This episodde was good and sets up the ending for sure.

    They will all end up at the concert. Every character they can get will be there. From Rose and Bernard to Aaron to Michael. I bet they are all there somehow. It will be interesting to see how they tie that into everything as im sure of how. I think that all the characters will remember the other world at the end or at some point during the concert.

  29. I just read that after the final when the DVD set will come out, there will be a 20mins additional storyline into it! It´s been said the extra time is specially for the fans because they will answer questions they can´t do during the final!! ..i for myself will need to watch this..

    ah, here is an interesting sneak peek i just found..


    who are they talking about?

    I have to apologize by you guys because of the wrong information i gave you about Juliet!! I probably just saw a deleted scene…..sorry about that

  30. They are talking about Jacob giving Jack his powers. Sawyer is making fun of it in terms of Moses coming down with the commandments. Moses brother was AAron and AAron and Moses were both Descendants of Jacob…I’m just saying…

  31. It seems to me like most of you guys believes that someone would replace MiB too? I have difficulties of seeing that happen. I know that I don’t “have what it takes” when it comes to sufficient knowledge about Lost but.. still it feels very unlikeable that anyone would replace MiB.

    Well.. soon you all (everybody) will know..

    Imo there will be no chance or need to replace MiB. I’m of course expecting to be wrong (like always) 🙂

  32. Adam,

    “They will all end up at the concert. Every character they can get will be there. From Rose and Bernard to Aaron to Michael. I bet they are all there somehow. It will be interesting to see how they tie that into everything as im sure of how. I think that all the characters will remember the other world at the end or at some point during the concert.”

    – I agree 97 % with you. I believe Desmond said something like “She’s not ready yet” about Ana Lucia, so maybe a few of them (Michael, Walt and Vincent?) will not be there. But I really hope they will.

    – And ABSOLUTELY! They will REMEMBER! But at the same time, I’m confused.. for example.. Jack has a son in the side world..

    – There will certainly be a really nice and happy PARTY at the concert! I wish we all could be invited!! 😉

  33. About Desmond.. He looks so cool in the side world!

    He is like a SUN and it shines around him.. so extremely calm and confident! First I thought that I liked it but…

    …isn’t it strange that he act so damn calm/confident??

    I mean, shouldn’t he be worried? He wasn’t worried at all when Flocke had him to the well. And later, the same thing.. when Sayid was there to shoot him.. no worried at all!?


    The only explanation in my nano brain is that Desmond ALREADY KNOW what will happen!!

    Well.. I really must have a nano brain.. suddenly it comes to me.. of course he knows!! He is aware of BOTH WORLDS.. So he already knows how it will happen! That’s why! So there will be a HAPPY ENDING!

    Thinking.. thinking.. rethinking.. maybe not.. I don’t know!!

    Can anybody PLEASE explain HOW can Desmond be so damn calm & confident!? I don’t get it! He should be scared, shouldn’t he????

  34. hello i been reading these blog for a month, i have to say, it is the best blog in all the web. Sorry for my english im mexican lol

    I have a doubt, in “what they died for” (last episode) Jacob told Jack remember when you awake when you first got to the island, around the bambo area…. near that area is the “light” (first question, how jacob knew where jack was?? its jacob he knows everything, ok ok), you remember that vincent awake jack.. right?, what if vincent found the light?? because in that episode (episode 1 y 2) almost everytime the black smoke appears, vincent was around, and had these strange look. Maybe im going crazy, but before the black smoke kill the pilot, vincet saw jack, kate and charlie going to the plane….. and it had these strange black look in his eyes lol lol

    i love lost

    and i have a theory, kate is fake mother…….

  35. Sorry myfirstblogever but I came up with Kate being FMother a week ago. Like I said back then, it would just piss off waaaaay too many people!

    Well shiver me timbers. One of the lamest episodes last week gets followed by a great one, a worthy penultimate ep and one that sets up the last 150 minutes beautifully… this time next week it’ll all be over. *sniff*

    The main problem everyone seems to have with What They Died For is the campfire scene where Jacob explains what they died for, and yeah, I can see why. It was like the writers wanted it out of the way really quickly because they’d already shown what happened between Jacob and MIB in the last episode, but Kate, Sawyer, Jack and Hurley hadn’t seen that episode, and they didn’t ask ANY detailed questions. Heck, Sawyer didn’t even make a single wisecrack, although I think that might be because he’s still mourning the friends he killed.

    (Speaking of which, that scene between him and Jack was beautifully handled, even if we had all seen it before in the sneak peaks.)

    What was great about the campfire scene was Jacob’s explanation – that he brought the candidates there because they were all flawed and lonely, just like him. Of course, that was what Locke the perfect candidate – he was perhaps the most flawed and lonely man who ever lived! But yeah, Jack’s acceptance was lamer than Locke after his dad pushed him out of that window.

    More great stuff:

    Rousseau making Dr Linus cry before coming on to him. Also, Alex’s: “You’re like, the nicest guy ever!”

    Richard Alpert ending two hundred years by getting bitch-slapped across Otherville by Smokey in freight-train mode.

    Evil Ben’s return…. or is it? (remember, he ALWAYS has a plan)

    John Locke telling Dr Shepherd that everything happens for a reason, again. Seriously, when those two have their “constant” moment it had better be worth the wait…

    And hey, how come nobody’s talking about potentially the most important development!? Alternate reality Hurley KNEW who Anna Lucia was!!! It’s as if since his flash after kissing Libby he’s remembered everything original Hurley knew! So will this mean that alternate Charlie, Ben and Faraday will all become the same as their original versions too now they’ve had their flashes?

    Oh, and by the way, I’ve just thought of something really cool – if Lost ends in a way that’s as ass-out awesome as everyone hopes, and we all find out what’s at the bottom of everything – then we ALL become like Jacob! Everyone who’s watched the show from the start will become guardians of the secret of the island, and whenever people ask us if we should watch that show Lost because it’s supposed to be the greatest piece of TV ever, we can just smile an all-knowing smile and say, “Yeah, but I can’t tell you why… you have to watch it for yourself.”

  36. I think it will be Ben who ultimately “saves the day” and remains to protect the island. Once Jacob informs them that his chalk list/cross-offs are random, it leaves open the possibility.

  37. Desmond is in the sideways world to “help the people to let go” as he mentioned to Locke, Ben believed him when talking to Locke, Jack told him the same last time they saw each other in the hospital. -what exactly means desmond?

    Jacob chose the losties because they were like him, alone, desperated and searching for their right path….he gave them a choice

    Guys, what for “big” questions do we have left? we already got some stuff, mostly very lame stuff but at least answers of the most mysterious question there were, right!?

    we know the the most important stuff about what is the island(light-cave) and part of it´s backstory, inlcuding Jacob & MiB´´s twist, and how the smoke was created. Candidates; We know about Dharma, we got magnus hanso´s name in an episode, about the black rock and how the statue was destroyed. The temple, the others…..adam & eve…on n on…

    What do we will get in the finale? Of course, Mib´s coming death and how this all will look a like in the end. and also who´ll kill smoky.

    Of course, a billion of other question, hahaha

  38. 1, Assuming the island in the sideways world sank because MiB managed it, or will he do it now in the finale with Desmond somehow??

    2, Desmond was brought by Widmore to the island because Jacob visited him and asked for help. then he gave him probably the list of the candidates he had and of course the right course to find the island! Widmore also knew Des is the “failsafe key” against smoky, right? or What else?

    So should this mean Desmond is able to rescue and destroy the island. If he destroys it he will probably die too, but if not will he become a sort of superman if he goes into the light-cave or a sort of “good” smoke monster?? ah, who the f..k knows; it also could be Jack the one going into the light-cave. at the moment he is the only one knowing the hidden place…, but des is the electromagnism guy, he could mess with the power! …whoo knows..

    we´ll see anyway..

  39. Great episode. I thought “Across the Sea” was in the top five worst ep’s ever. The whole campfire scene wasn’t that lame, I didn’t think. I think sometimes we expect an earth-shattering answer for every question. He picked them because their lives sucked and he hoped they’d wanna chill on the island for a couple hundred years. Jack answering the bell so quickly was just him being desperate to prove to himself that he was back on the island for a reason. Jacob could’ve said anything and Jack would’ve been all over it.

    I don’t think we’ll see the island get sunk by MIB. The island time is 2007 and the sideways time is 2004. The only way I see it getting sunk has to be some sort of flashback in the sideways world. Maybe I’m wrong, but remember that we are dealing with two different timelines here. I could be wrong though…

  40. The problem started when the original writer left the show and Desperate Housewives wannabes took over the storyline. They don’t understand sci-fi. Beyond the love-triangle that went on far too long, they are, themselves, lost.

  41. Yeah Eric, and Kevin Spacey could have told everyone he was Keyser Soze in the opening minutes of Usual Suspects (sorry, SPOILER), and hey – you can turn to the last page of a novel while you read it to find out how it ends before you die.

    Stories aren’t about the destination, they’re about the journey. I’m sure you understand sci-fi fluently, but understanding decent narrative is a different kettle of babel fish.

  42. to johnathan. the concert is going to be a driveshaft gig and a classical show in one. i remember widmore telling desmond about it, so that means everyone is going to be at the show and everyone is going to remember everything

  43. Sorry I have to repeat this..

    Can anybody PLEASE explain HOW can Desmond be so damn calm & confident!? I don’t get it! He should be scared, shouldn’t he????

    Would be nice if someone also can explain what the sideworld really is? Is it how their lifes should have been if Jacob had stayed away from them? But if so.. some of them doesn’t really look like lonely loosers! And was it so good by Jacob to bring them to the island without asking them if they wanted (in some way). I mean.. look what happend to many of them.. Charlie died, John Locke died, Sun and Jin also died, Ana Lucia, Libby.. and many more..

    Okey, you say no – they live in the sideworld.. BUT WHAT IS THIS DAMN SIDEWORLD??

    We have got many answers. Yes that’s true. But there are so many questions left.. And I’m talking about the BIG questions!

  44. Hello,

    Good episode but more lame answers. I expected some “epic” scenes when some of the most important questions were being answered.

    At least I still hope to get some epic scenes/episode in the finale! 🙂

    So Jacob chose the candidates because they where alone, desperated and searching for their right path.
    Jacob told Kate that he crossed her name on the cave ceiling when she started being a mother, but as far as I remember Jacob “took” Claire to the island when she was clearly going to be a mother soon. So what’s the point on this?

    The way he explained how he chose the candidates was too simple. Personally I expected Jacob to talk about the unique qualities in each one of them but he didn’t…
    Jacob only explained that they need to protect the light, he didn’t said what would happen if they fail (Smoke Monster escaping the island and killing everyone in the world?).
    Why didn’t Jacob explain this to the candidates?
    I think he explained it better to Richard (hope he’s not dead).

    Another point, this episode seems to indicate that my theory of the temple being built above the cave of light is probably wrong, because when Jacob explained to Jack where the cave of light is he didn’t talked about the temple.

    So one theory down so i got a new theory for season finale…:)
    I think some of the losties of the sideways world will somehow go to the island again and will play a decisive role on the final!!!
    We already saw that Desmond know what is happening in the island, because he remember everything!
    Desmond is trying that the rest of the losties remember too. See all the effort that he is putting in order to make this happen. Hurley already remembers, we saw just that when Hurley saw Ana Lucia.
    So I think that on the concert all of the losties will remember their lives on the island and that somehow Eloise and Faraday will be able to get some of the losties to the island!
    We know that Eloise somehow knows how to get people to the island with the help of the equipment and calculation that we saw on a church’s room, remember?

    When Jacob was killed at the end of season 5 we said “They’re coming!”. I think we was refering to the losties on the sideways world! This will surely be a big upset to Flocke because one of the losties that will surely return to the island will be the real LOCKE! 😀

    The big question is what will happen if one island lostie is side by side with his sideways lostie? Confused?
    On one of the Dharma videos (with rabbits being teleported…) that we saw, Mr. Chang told that this should not ever occur, because something impredictable would happen if the two rabbit were in the same space…

    I also think that Jack will not be able to be the protector of the island, so it is going to be the real Locke who is going to protect the island.

    So guys, i would like to get your feeling on this!

    Um abraço para os amigos portugueses e brasileiros aqui do forum. 🙂

  45. I agree with a few different things from KB, Scoppie and Eric.

    I do feel the bonfire was an improv gone wrong, I’ve posted that already. It just felt to easy for such a big answer. I expected a bit more flare with that scene. I do like that Kate finally stepped up and asked a relevant question. So often I feel like I have to suspend my disbelief with this show and the character blindly follow to often without asking questions. I was shocked someone finally demanded an answer.

    Stories, good stories at least are about the ride not the landing. This story though has a few very specific questions we have been waiting for and while I agree getting them upfront is not a good idea, getting them in the way we did was a bit of a let down.

  46. I 100% agree with KB on the camp fire scene, the show how has done it this way since the beginning and is a big reason we are all so hooked.
    KB I have to say I 100% disagree with the “Across the Sea” review though lol.

    The only reason I can see for them to show the island at the bottom of the sea like that is to make sure the viewers realise that the two timelines are separate at that point. I don’t think that MIB’s current agenda will line up with that scene at all.

  47. so ideas about what just happened…
    jack taking the job was of course rushed and felt forced. i do like the idea of the other “candidates” being agents of jack a la Richard to Jacob.
    why desmond had to run over locke to get him to let go seemed a bit excessive. but desmond is not a man of words but rather a man of action. and clearly attempted vehicular manslaughter.
    and i agree that the “name on wall written in chalk” thing was lame. if he had no “candidates” then would flocke have anyone to kill? or if he named the entire world candidates could flocke kill anyone?
    ben reverts back…shocker there. did not expect widmore to go out like that. and he basically gave up once he saw flocke. this show is…frustrating.

  48. This is taken from

    Jacob says:

    “You call him the monster. I’m responsible for what happened to him. I made him that way, and ever since then, he’s been trying to kill me. It was only a matter of time before he figured out how and when he did, someone would have to replace me. And that’s why I brought you all here.”

    Then it’s confirmed that Jacob’s brother didn’t die in the light cave.

    About Fmother. I wonder if she lost her power when she “forced” Jacob to take over the responsibility of the island? Maybe at the time she said something like “We are the same now”?

    About Richard. I hope he’s alive!

    About Widmore. Wondering what he REALLY whispered to Flocke!? Maybe Miles can help to found out?

    I will pray for a really amaaaaazzzzzziiiiiing ending! I believe in the writers!

  49. With so many questions flying around, lets focus back on the episode at hand and a pretty simple one left right for the final minute: who lowered the rope for Desmond? I think we can forget about Sayid – he told the other, sorry, the other CANDIDATES, that he left him stuck down the well before he went kaboom.

    That basically leaves: Miles, Rose and/or Bernard or Alpert if he survived the full-on Smokey assault (which I personally don’t believe he did, but there are rumours going around the net).

    For me it would make sense if it was Rose and Bernard, out walking Vincent or something, as this would be a great way to bring them back in for the finale. Also, Rose in particular has always had that whole “island understanding” thang going on, and it would be great for her and the newly enlightened Des to meet up and get all mysterious together.

    Miles… seriously, would anyone have put money on that douche surviving until the final episode? OK so his gift has proved kinda useful once or twice, but really, it’s as if the writers are just keeping him around for the hell of it…. UNLESS… the writers inserted him into the show waaay back because they wanted his skill of hearing the dead to be used right at the very end of the show, and they’ve been keeping him alive ever since! My theory – lots of regulars are gonna get creamed early on next week, but Miles’ gift will keep them communicating with whoever’s left. We shall see…

    Right, there’s something else I wanna say, but I’ll post this first and make myself a cuppa tea…

  50. StillLost – the Dharma initiative brought them there and fed them fish biscuits to see how the island would affect them or something.

  51. … that thing about the polar bears was not what I wanted to say by the way. This was:

    One last thing that I noticed when re-watching What They Died For… Ben’s summoning room back at Otherville. I’ve always felt and said on this forum that there are things we STILL don’t know about Benjamin Linus – specifically what the heck happened to him between getting shot by Sayid and eventually murdering most of the people he’d ever known including his own dad, AND what happened to Annie, that girlfriend he had who carved him that doll?

    Now, when Miles asks “What’s that – a secreter room?” (great line by the way), Ben replies “It’s where I was told I could summon the monster.” Now THAT is a very interesting line. Who exactly told Ben this? Did Richard, who was standing right behind him when he said it, and KNEW what Smokey was, know about it? Did Whidmore, before he was banished? Or was it MIB, in the form of Ben’s mum or something, that told him?

    The connection between MIB and Ben was really pushed back to the front of things in that episode, particularly when MIB observed, “you never cease to amaze me Benjamin”. MIB has been playing with Ben for a loooong time, and I’ve got a theory on how long (this post is becoming pretty epic, but bear with me).

    What if young Benjamin Linus died when Sayid shot him…. and then when Richard rescued him by bringing him to the temple the exact same thing that happened to Sayid later, happened to him? What if Ben Linus HAD HIS SOUL TAKEN BY MIB since he was a kid, and MIB has been playing him ever since? What if Ben is

    It would explain so much – why Ben has always seemed so dead inside, why he can kill without thinking, why Jacob refused to speak to him, and crucially, why the alternate Ben Linus is so different, “the nicest guy ever” as Alex calls him. I think Ben and Sayid are more alike than even they knew, and that, fingers crossed, Ben is looking to betray his master in the end just like Sayid did…

    Right, I think that’s my best theory ever, I’m going to bed.

  52. Thoughts…

    I know a lot of people are saying that Jack volunteering to take the caretaker job was badly written. I thought it was very appropriate. He didn’t volunteer as a sacrifical lamb going into the fire. Jack WANTED the job. There was nothing to talk about. Jacob made him the exact offer he was looking for. It seemed like he quickly volunteered because he thought someone else might take it first.

    I have to say, in the sideways universe, the island is presumably “destroyed”- or at least underwater. So if it really is the “cork” preventing the Smoke Monster from getting free, then SM went free decades ago. And the world looks pretty much ok. It may be that outside LA and Australia (the only places we’ve seen) there is carnage and devastation and plague and famine, but everything looks pretty much the same as the real world.

    I’ve been thinking about the “rules” and I think they’re all just BS. I’m pretty sure the rule about Ben and Widmore not being able to hurt each other originates from a general rule about leaders (of the Others) not being able to hurt each other. And that probably was made up by Jacob/Richard to avoid revolutions or civil war among the Others. There’s no actual force to these rules. And Jacob and his brother were told they couldn’t hurt each other, but who knows if that’s anything more than a big scam made up by their pseudo-mother. In fact, MIB as a kid once told Jacob when he complained about the board-game rules that they were his (MIB’s) rules, and one day Jacob could make up his own rules.

  53. RLost – I agree about the rules. FMother told Jacob and MIB they could not hurt each other. Yet, when Jacob found out MIB wanted to leave because he didn’t believe FMother was their really mom, Jacob beat the crap out of him. Sure looked to me like they could hurt each other.

  54. i need some help with something,
    i just saw first episode season 5 (again), after locke got shot by ethan, locke travel in time and richard found him laying down and wounded, then richard put out the bullet from his leg, right….. he told locke that he will have to die in order to get everyone back to the island (i know this is old stuff.. but it is interesting). How richard knew???? I guess locke travel to the futuree far from what we are now in the island, so my guess is richard is still alive and he will still be alive after everything end… and he will help john locke…something will happend to locke in the island that he is going to be a good guy again

    interesting right….. you should see that episode again… you should see all the seasons again lol
    (sorry for my english : ) …. )

  55. my first blog ever RE 67,

    “..he told locke that he will have to die in order to get everyone back to the island (i know this is old stuff.. but it is interesting). How richard knew???? I guess locke travel to the futuree far from what we are now in the island..”

    If you continue to rewatch season 5, then you’ll se what happend. It was Fake Locke who was walking with Richard and Ben and could tell Richard what was happening to the Real John Locke (who was time traveling). He took them to a place and pointed out – the timing were perfect – a place near. He gave Richard instructions to go to the place he was pointing at, and help Locke with that bullet. Fake Locke also told Richard what to say to Real Locke (of course Richard & Ben didn’t know it wasn’t the Real Locke).

    I hope you understand my ugly english 😉

  56. Totallylost! Where are you?? And all the Others??

    I really hope your flight was good&safe and that you have both feet on safe ground by now!

    My guess is that You All Everybody have gone down in some cave or hatch, and you are all rewatching Lost from season one!

    Hope you’ll soon came up and tell us about your theories!

    The (Happy?) End is coming closer every second!

  57. Wow so close to “The End”.

    Scoppie –
    I know that in the past we have talked about Ben possibly dying and then becoming like Sayid’s dark soul character. I don’t think anyone has brought it as far as you though with Ben eventually wanting to betray his master in the end much like Sayid. I think this is a goodone. Like you pointed out Ben may have been being controlled by MIB this whole time and not Jacob.

    Just a note on that: I like your idea however I am don’t think it will happen that way.
    MIB is evil
    Ben is Bad – at least the Ben we knew since his Henry Gale days is bad. Sideways Ben is good.

  58. I think Miles is alive just for the reason he will manage into the plot with his ability to speak to the dead.

    Right when he felt Ben’s daughter is when Ben became the old murdering evil Ben, so in a way, Miles was important there.

    Maybe Miles will go to Whidmore’s body and find out exactly what he told FLocke before he died because he can get the last thoughts of the dead.

    He may do this with a number of characters when they die in the finale. Because I think they will all die except Jack and whoever takes the MIB role.

    Miles could still be important but he will die soon enough. His father is Pierre Chang and is giving a speech at this concert thing in the Finale. They are both part of a group that will be at this concert who have been on or are on the island. I think all the characters will be there. Even Rose and Bernard somehow.

  59. When Flocke was telling Richard about the young boy Locke he was doing it as MIB. He had to prove to Richard that Locke was special so that he could manipulate the loophole. This was to have someone else kill Jacob because he could not. So he manipulates Ben into doing it. Well done.

  60. Jones – I think Ben being controlled by MIB since being submerged into the temple pool would be absolutely integral to the plot of Lost – because Ben was running the Others and basically the whole Island when Oceanic 815 crashed, but he was doing it while following orders from MIB, but THINKING or PRETENDING to be following Jacob.

    MIB wanted the Others to believe they were following Jacob, so there was no way he could just kill all the candidates when they arrived. But the oppresive, secretive, corrupt regime Ben presided over in the name of Jacob (falsely) meant that the truth could never be revealed to the survivors.

    The big question is – why didn’t Jacob intervene? Maybe it really WAS him trapped in that hut the whole time….

  61. Scoppie,
    Not sure if I made my point clear, I think Ben and all of what you mentioned in Post 64 and 73 is very integral to the story and where it is going. I am just saying that I think the end game of Ben will be different. I guess I assumed that you are saying that like Sayid Ben will realise his good inner self and betray MIB, but I think he will do it for his own gain and to avenge the years of lying, etc.
    Sayid blew himself up to save his friends because he is good.
    Ben may betray MIB and if he does I think it will be because he is getting his revenge.

  62. Scoppie Post 73 : “The big question is – why didn’t Jacob intervene? Maybe it really WAS him trapped in that hut the whole time….”

    Again great thought.

    Like Adam said Miles is still around for a reason. I like the idea of him talking with dead Widmore to find out while des is so special.

  63. MIB in the cabin was the one who first told Locke to move the island.

    MIB as Christian told Locke in the well :

    1 – that he was the one that had to turn the wheel, not Ben, and that he had to sacrifice
    (repeating Richard’s speech to Locke that he had to die, in that moment he healed his wound, wich he was actually told to by Flocke) ;

    2 – that he had to gather everyone who left the island and look for Ms. Hawking .

    After Locke failed to convince the O6 to come back, Ben found him trying to kill himself, found out about Eloise and then killed him.

    I am not sure what was Ben’s interest in taking everyone back, but he got in charge of that mission and was the one that ”convinced” them all to come back.

    So, if MIB was the one who started all the time travels, and that wanted them to come back, Ben seemed to working along with him at the time, as well as Ms. Hawking.

    Maybe MIB made them a deal for a better life or something (sideways world).

    I am quite sure all the specific time flashes had a reason, they were not random, and we will find out about it.

    Weird thought:
    What if somehow the sideways world is related to the spliting of the roles of protector of the island and smoke monster in two different persons, Jacob and MIB, since both jobs were united in the fake mom before.

    If sideways world ends, Jack would gather both roles again.

    I know its fool of holes, but its just a feeling.

  64. I think it’s going to be important that Miles has the walkie talkie that was given to him by Ben. Ben is either going to use Miles to betray the candidates. Or he could use Miles to betray Flocke. But either way we are going to see that walkie talkie again.

  65. I have been reading this post forever but have never posted until now. Awesome site and you guys are amazing, thank you! I thought I might as well post some final thoughts before this finale. Don’t know if anyone has posted these and if so, sorry I might have missed them!

    About the “letting go” conversations, I think Desmond is trying to convince the losties to let go of the sideway world – the Frealities and Fhappiness, because life is flawed and so is everyone. The sideway world is but a dream of a life that they all wish they have.
    Notagoodcandidate – Maybe the reason Desmond is so calm and confident is because he has already made peace with himself, that he has learnt to let go.

    Another thing, I thought Miles went into hiding with Widmore? Where did he go? Or did he just go off into the jungles or something?

    I do like the idea that Locke will in the end be the final Jacob, and “lock” up and protect the island and the sacred light 🙂

  66. Ben might tell Miles that Jack, Sawyer, Kate and Hurley are the smoke monster and to kill them when you see them, don’t let them speak.

    Ben is and always will be bad.

  67. In last episode, in the sideway world, when Hugo told Desmond what was Ana Lucia doing here? and ask desmond if she was coming? Desmond said “she is not ready yet” or something like that….

    Ok my question, i remember this had happend before, someone telling one of the losties, “he is not ready yet”. They were outside the island i remember that, and there was a group of people in a van (i think iliana or keamy say that (“he is not ready” to one of the losties)” I dont remeber exactly when this happened…

    I dont know if i read it on this blog or somewhere else, but the original name of lost was “Circle”, and the writers once told that the end of lost will not leave for a sequeal or something more, soo my guest in order to leave everything set for no more history, is that everything is going to repeat again, maybe not exactly as we saw.

    The show will end with the replacement of jacob and mib, sitting on the beach watching a plane or a ship arriving to the island….and having the same conversacion as once jacob and mib did…. amen

  68. Jason:

    I remember you said once that when Desmond turned the failsafe key, the timelines split and a new reality was created.

    I like that idea.

    Could you explain it in more details.


  69. Nuno Re 54,

    “Jacob told Kate that he crossed her name on the cave ceiling when she started being a mother, but as far as I remember Jacob “took” Claire to the island when she was clearly going to be a mother soon. So what’s the point on this?”

    – I’m not sure about it but I think Claire never was a candidate (probably because she was pregnant). I guess many of the survivers from Oceanic 815 never were candidates.

    I like your theory about some of the losties from the sideline world coming back and fight on the island! But I don’t think it will happen 🙁 . And I really hope the real John Locke will be fixed/reborn on the island. He should be the protector of the island and not Jack!

  70. Claire was going to give her baby up for adoption, therefore she would be in just as bad positions as the rest of the canidates. And I think Littleton was on the wall. My guess is that when Clarie had the baby on the island and decided to keep it that is when her name got crossed of the list.

  71. post #80

    i tend to agree more with that theory (however it may unfold) than any other.

    It will be jack sitting with Ben, a new form of Locke or Desmond. just guesses.

    Can’t wait

  72. here are some final thoughts

    – I like the lost transcripts that it was Rose and Benard that help Des out.

    – I aslo like the theory that when Des turned the key it started the sideways world.

    _ I believe as I have stated for the last year the last scene will be Flocke and jack on the beach same roles as Jacob and MIB.

    On a personal note I have really enjoyed this time with you guys it’s been a great escape and as next week winds down and we debate “the end” good, bad or indifferent, Thank each one of you for your thoughts, jabs, and insight on what has to be the best show of this millennium so far. I do have a final question:

    How will you be watching the last episode?????

    I will be coming back from a foodshow and I will have a good drink, a freshly opened Cuban cigar and some sushi. BRING IT ON!!!! Maybe they’ll have Sun flashbacks!!!!!

  73. I will be watching with my wife and brand new baby girl just born this afternoon!!! Hopefully I’ll be able to stay awake for the entire line-up tomorrow…

  74. This is our second baby so I know all about not sleeping. No, we didn’t name her after a LOST character. I obsessed but I’m not quite that obsessed. We named her Brynley Alyvia Brown, she weighed 7 lbs. 4oz, and was 20 in long.

  75. somefinalthoughts RE 78,

    “Maybe the reason Desmond is so calm and confident is because he has already made peace with himself, that he has learnt to let go. ”

    – Well, interesting thought. You may be on something there. The only explanation I can come up with is that Desmond already knows what will happen, from a flash in the future. But I believe you are closer to the truth.

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