Two sneak peek’s for Lost Season 5 episode 12 – Dead is Dead
Ben wake’s up and is back to his typical tricks. Saying he killed John because he knew the island would bring him back to life. John has a calm cool demeanor, and for once seems to not actually believe what Ben is yapping about.
Ben and Locke take a stroll through his old hood. Someone’s lurking in Alex’s old room. Who do you think it is??
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My guess is that it’s Hurley in Ben’s house. As Ben’s going in, you can see a game of Risk was being played. We’ve already seen a scene where Hurley is playing risk and he says Australia is the key to everything.
Interesting insight Scott. I’m going with Sun. However, possibly ghost of Alex, or Danielle. Watch it be noone! But I feel strongest about Sun.
I WAS RIGHT!!!! Ben’s big sin was coming back to the island. I almost feel sorry for him. It should be interesting tonight.
I think Sun and frank are in bens house.
I agree with Marquette aka Marco
Very interesting to see people’s theories. Keep them coming!
I am so freaking rich.
For all those in the prior post who said that Hurley may be the one to program the nubmers in the Swan, is it also possible that he is the one who sets up the transmission of the numbers in the radio tower? It could be heard after Denielle’s destress call was turned off, but blocked by the jammer in the looking glass.
I think it’s Christian Sheppard, I believe he is the one who will lead Ben through the judgement, sort of like the ghost of Christmas.
my guess is sun also. they all have their reasons for coming back
sun=jin
kate=claire
jack=undetermined
sayid=kill ben…or at least shoot him so that juliette cant fix him, jack refuses and he gets to the others.
hurley=the numbers…most likely
maybe its claire? is she from austrailia….metephor for her being the key to everything???
Claire its in the house !!! just a guess
and also: give me a break !!! that doesnt make sense to be judged by the “monster” ! ben said b4 that whoever turned the wheel could not come back. the monster is in the island, therefore if he had wanted to be judged, he would have stayed !
Karen- Maybe Ben was hoping that he would receive forgiveness because of all he had done for the island in the past. After all, what life does he have off the island? Why not roll the dice and see what happens. Poor guy.
awesome, awesome episode, lots of ?’s answered, etc.
and umm… are the people from Ajira OTHERS??… what was up with that statue riddle?????
Great episode. John has definitely been reborn and is stepping up and knows he’s in control. I like the scene where he sat down at Ben’s desk and put his feet up, and when he was leading him through the jungle and Ben didnt know where they were going.
I’m not sure I’m ready to believe he’s alive yet. I think he may be like whatever Christian is now.
Did anyone catch when Locke asked if Ben hurt his arm? I think it had something to do with being shot as a boy in his past. Anyone have any thoughts on that?
I’m also glad Cesar got shot. I didn’t like his character for some reason.
Well, I won’t say too much for all you folks outside the US who have to wait for tomorrow, but yes, many questions were answered, and more will be next week.
I say we give Ben an Emmy Award for an outstanding performance. The looks on his face, his expressions, etc . . are priceless.
Can’t wait to hear from Jason, Moohaha, C.P.L., Karen, Jonathan, Scoppie, Adam, Richard 7769, and who am I leaving out????
John Locke- You rock!!!!!
Scott– Ben got shot in his chest, so I don’t think that is why his arm hurt. I think it got hurt in the beating he took before he got on the plane, or when the plane crashed.
**SPOILER within**
Statue riddle… Sounds like Charles might have gotten a group of people on the plane. And the statue riddle is how they reveal themselves.
Ben didn’t kill Penny from what we saw. So why does Ben say “Tell Desmond I’m sorry”?
Scott (not that one)…maybe he’s sorry because he shot him in the chest.
AMAZING EPISODE.SOME THOUGHTS:
– ILANA CERTAINLY KNEW THINGS ABOUT THE ISLAND PRIOR TO GETTING THERE: THE STATUE SHE MENTIONS IS VISIBLE FROM THE MAIN ISLAND(NEAR THE ORCHID), BUT NOT FROM WHERE THEY WERE, IN THE SMALLER ISLAND, SO THAT A WAS A CODE OF SOME SORT.
– THE HOUSE BEN LIVED, IN WICH THERE WAS A TRAP DOOR IN THE CLOSET LEADING TO THAT PLACE TO SUMMON THE MONSTER , IT CERTAINLY WAS BUILT BEFORE BEN LIVED THERE, BY DHARMA PEOPLE, SO THE DI SHOULD BE AWARE OF THAT. WHO LIVED THERE BEFORE?
– WIDMORE WAS BANNED AFTER THE PURGE, AS THE OTHERS HAD TOOK OVER THE BARRACKS.
– HOW THE HELL ROSSEUAU DIDNT REMEMBER BEN WHEN HE GOT HIM IN THAT NET PRETENDIND TO BE HENRY GALE? SHE JUST SAID HE SHOULD BE ONE OF THE OTHERS. THATS WORST THAT NOT REMEMBERING JIM.
– ANUBIS WAS IN THAT DRAWING INSIDE THE TEMPLE, APARENTLY WITH THE SMOKE MONSTER.
– ALEX APPEARED TO BEN AS YEMI TO EKO, LIKE A SMOKIE MANIFESTATION. BEN REGRETED HIS SINS AND EKO DIDNT, THATS WHY HE DIED AND BEN DIDNT.
– BEN WAS SORRY BECAUSE HE SHOT DESMOND, ALTOUGH THE SHOT SEEMED TO HIT THE GROCERY BAG.
– MICHAEL EMERSON AND TERRY O’QUINN ARE THE SHINING STARS OF THIS SHOW, NO DOUBT ABOUT IT. WHO MISSED JACK?
-WHY DIDNT THE SMOKE MONSTER SHOW UP WHEN BEN SUMMONED IT, LIKE HE HAD DONE TO KILL KEAMY AND HIS CREW?PROBABLY SOMETHING LOCKE DID…HE LEFT TO DO SOMETHING AND APPEARED FROM NOTHING…RIGHT WHEN BEN SAID TO SUN THAT WHAT WAS GOING TO COME OUT OF THAT JUNGLE HE HAD NO CONTROL AT ALL..AND JOHN CAME..
I bet Locke just had to use the washroom, thats why he was in the jungle… (joking)
I did really like the episode, but I am not a fan of the monster so at the same time it was kind of a disappointment. I do love the Ben/Locke dynamic though, def. my favorite 2 people to interact with each other.
Locke coming out of the woods after Ben said to Sun that he can’t control whats about to come out of the woods, that was awesome.
As for Ilana and that crew they have to be with widmore, and they are certainly guarding that supply box pretty closely, I wonder what is in it.
“What lies in the shadow of the statue” reminds me of the “what did one snowman say to the other” line by des when they first got into the swan. In this case I think it is used to sort out who is with the (I assume Widmore) crew. Also I think it could quite literally be what use to lie in the shadow the statue that use to stand on the island.
You guys are quick….and good! Nearly all my thoughts are even written above!
So…WOW…coool episode, really really good!!!!
We got so many answers about Widmore, the “younger”one, the older one….(hey he was riding on a horse, last time i saw a horse on the island was in Kate´s eyes…Whatever), it was not ok that this Elli maybe aka Ms. Hawking was not seen and mentioned even once a time, i assumed she was with Widmore in charge at some point in time!?!? Also Widmore is a good guy! I think even Ben is a good guy to at some point!
Next is about Ethan. The teenager Ethan was with Ben before he stoled the baby from young Rousseau, that means they were still in the 80´ and there was still the DI on the island….so should that mean Ben and Ethan ran over to others and went never back even during the DI time?? For me both of the them looked like normal “others”, they went even back to their hidden others camp where Widmore was!
Good that Ceaser is gone, but it was pretty lame how he was killed….and because somebody mentioned once before a main character will die this season, i don´t hope this was the one even when he was not really a main character, but like Ilana somebody important i thought…ohh…and Ilana and her two “friends”, yes guys…she knows def more as how she acted to Sayid! She is on a mission here probably for Widmore, but what she asked poor Frank who has never an idea what´s going on the hole time on the island was really really mysterious, i have no clue what she was talking about!?
It was good to see Desmond kicking Ben´s ass, even when Ben wouldn´t had shot Penny after he saw their child!
AND the Smoke Monster makes less sense than ever for me since the beginning of the show, i mean he didn´t kill Ben because he let died his daughter in front of his own eyes, and that´s only one of million bad things he did! But it´s ok, i like Ben, he is and will be one of my favourites (from the “bad” people)
great episode.
finally some anwsers!!!
someone had posted that they think that the Dharma knew about the smoke monster secret door. and I gotta say that I’m not to sure about that. I don’t think that the DI made that entrance through Ben
s secret door. I think that once Ben and the others took over Dharmaville that they made that tunnel. I mean the tunnel looked like it was carved out Shawshank style not like it was manufactued like the buildings they had built.
I think the others knew that it was there and created a shortcut so it would be easier to get to. remember the Dharma built that fence to keep out the monster, why then would they know how to control it?
I am also thinking that the temple extends beneath the surface of the whole island. like the island was maybe built on the temple. well that actually sounds kinda stupid after I say it outloud. but who knows.
Also if Ben was suprised that Locke had risin from the dead or had a rebirth then it could be safe to assume that their situation were simular. little Ben probally did actually die like Locke and Ben had a rebirth kinda like Locke, and neither of them remember how they came to be alive again, right? if this is true then how come Locke remembers Ben killing him but Ben doesn’t remember Sayid shooting little Ben?
I love this show!!! ANY thoughts?
biglostfan…..some good points!!
First Locke remembers everything because he wasn´t put into the temple to be somehow “resurrected” like young Ben once!! Locke was off island when he was killed!
Second I think the DI knew about the hidden underground caves under the island whiche were built…who knows, let´t say a long time ago! I mean come on, the DI built these barracks and directly in one of the barracks (later Bens house) is a hidden door which the DI never knew!? If you maybe recognized when Ben went in his house to this hidden door behind the clothes, before he entered the room he pushed a button next to the door entrance! It made “click” and then he oppened this secrest old door! I know that the DI built this Fence to defence theirselves for the Monster but what if they didn´t knew how to treat (awake) the monster! OHH..btw…was it only me, because i found calling the monster whilst putting out a plug were the water flowed under into a hole…..strange and ridicolous too, my opinion!
And now i´m really excited what´s behind the Temple?? I thought the wall is a part of the temple but like Ben said it´s only something to protect other people finding the Temples behind the this wall!! Hope we´ll see everything behind there…..once..
I did like the smoke monster in that scene. if that was the first time we would have seen it then ok….up to that point the smoke monster is lame
I did like the scene with ben and alex. she said to follow locke. BUT i think ben will obviously not do that and be the dick head he always was. really making that whole scene pointless. until he proves otherwise thats what i think.
i think ben still kills penny. dez through him into the water where the gun was also thrown he will get it and kill her….i think that is predictable
i did really like this episode tho. i love the theory that the riddle llana said was something set up by whidmore.
getting down to it now!
When Widmore was bannished i think in 94´or so, the reason was a bit ridicolous for me because he had a wife and a child(Penny) off the island. That´s why he broke their rules!? Sorry but that´s a little bit stupid…
Okay CPL
you might be right about the DI knowing about the secret entrance. I totally forgot about the button he pushed to open the door.
Oh and I agree about summoning the monster by pulling the drain was kinda lame, I only hope that there is more to this than what we saw.
now was it just me, or in the previews for next week it looked liked Miles was working with Peirre Chang and it also looked like Miles gets shot at, could he be the one who kicks the bucket next?
At least we will get to see him talk to some more dead people and we will finally get some back story on the freighter people.
BIGLOSTFAN, THE DI CERTAINLY KNEW A LOT ABOUT THE MONSTER.
REMEMBER THE BLASTDOOR MAP RADZINSKI DREW IN THE SWAN.
IT HAD MANY REFERENCES TO C.V.(CERBERUS VENTS- SMOKIE TUNNELS), SHOWING WHERE THESE VENTS WERE LOCATED.
Hey all,
whoever formed the theory on the statue riddle, good job. That sounds like the best explanation. Similar to Desmond in the hatch. When I first saw the episode, I took it literally whcih I thought was odd considering the “statue” was on the main island.
Re: Jonathan, post 20, thats true about rousseau not remembering Ben when she caught him in the net. Wouldnt she have just killed him instead of turning him over to Sayid. Esp. if hes the one who stole her child. Strange? Because she seemed to remember him later in Season 3 or 4.
Also, regarding the drawings in the temple, the one with smoke monster and the Anubis just reinforces my belief that the giant statue is of Anubis. Perhaps those who built the temple and statue long ago were worshipers of the egyptian god or something.
I also enjoy the dynamic role reversal between Locke and Ben, even though I hate Ben, he is definitley a rich character. I totally thought he was going to kill Penny, but im glad he didnt. I believer when he told Sun to tell Des he was sorry, that he meant it was for shooting him, and not for killing Penny. (It was nice to finally SEE Desmond beat the shit out of Ben, and not just speculate that is what happened)
More to follow later…
Jonathan, you are right!
I totally forgot about those drawing on the door in the swan. the DI did know about the tunnels. but if so why would they create a tunnel to summon it, if they are afraid of it?
If I understand correctly the smoke monster is kinda on the side of the others (hostiles) right? or if it even has a side. maybe the DI knew also what it does to people.
What I’m still having a hard time understanding is, if when Russous’ crew where taken by smokie, they came back different, right, she said they were infected, so if this is true then why does Ben not seem so different? did it not infect him as well.
Well, I was a little disappointed in the smoke monster. Desmond did more damage to Ben than the monster did. I didn’t necessarily want him killed, but I did want him roughed up a whole lot more. Besides Ben just wouldn’t look like Ben if he didn’t have fresh wounds all the time.
In regard to Ben’s injured arm, he is wearing a sling at the time he gets on the plane. So I’m assuming the injury was due to Desmond’s “one on one attention”.
Ah yea, good call on Ben being in a sling on the plane. I guess I’m just looking for something that happens in the past to somehow affect the present that is going on at the same time.
I just watched the new trailer for next weeks episode, and i don´t know but it seems to me it will be maybe a Miles centric episode, but that wouldn´t make really sense, wouldn´t it? However, in this trailer it also seems to me that the original DI members debunked the losties that they are not original DI members. In the end from this trailer Radzinsky showed up heading a gun on the van where Miles is in it…..and…also when Sawyer hit down Phil, because Phil said something like you´ll gonna get killed, so probably they really debunked them, but how??!?!? It also could mean something totally different, how we learned about the trailers, they show us only some scenes whiche don´t belong together…..???!
Hey….can sombody tell me HOW and WHY Ben tricked Widmore off the island. I mean we saw they were talking about that the reason was because he had a woman/wife and a child(Penny) outside the island. OK when this is a rule from the others, then all the others bannished him and not only Ben!? And why did Widmore told Locke in 2004 after his arrival off the island in the Desert that Ben had tricked him off the island (widmore assumed the same happened to Locke).
I knew it wasn´t because wimdore turned that wheel!
Last think about Ben. The reason why the smoke monster didn´t kill Ben, i think, was because at the beginning of the episode Widmore told Ben that he had to sacrfice his daughter for…??…sorry forget why – BUT my point is Ben sacrficed his “own” stolen daughter and let her be killed by Keamy! And the island forg
Hey…had somebody maybe recognized too that the word “The Island wants”…came very often from a lot of people in this episode! I know, not important but even when i didn´t count how often “the island” word fall it was at least 10 times or something in that way!
So i´m assuming the Island and Jacob are not really “one person”, like the others talked about what the island will and won´t do, and Jacob wasn´t the big Boss, so that was how understand that?? please correct if i´m wrong……
Young Ethan was in 88´/89´ or 90´ with Ben before he stoled little Alex and ethan was already an other at this time, so when he was born in 77´ that would mean he was circa 12-14 years old. That means it was before the purge happened, so his mother maybe gave him to the others before the purge happened or he really ran over like young Ben ones or…..the hell knows why!!
Hi Folks. Now that the cat is out of the bag, here are my thoughts.
I thought it somewhat strange when Richard Alpert said to Whidmore that Jacob wanted Ben there. Did he really? It is almost as if Richard had a riff with Widmore (that eventually led to his ouster), and was using the jacob card to get what he wanted. Later in life Ben took up that same mantle and used the “that is what Jacob said” line to get power over the others. What is my point? I don’t know, I just thought it odd.
I guess we were all fooled about Illana. She is no good. I hope she is the one in the canoe who get’s kiled by Juliette. the “What lies in the shadow of the statue” code is probably used to identify others on the plane who are in the group widmore (i thinkg him) put together. I think Scott said the same thing above. However, I still want to know how they knew they would crash on the island, or were they truly going to Guam to launch their search for the island.
Was it just me, or did Danielle not put up enough of a fight for her baby? I mean even after Ben left she still had a gun. Go track them and get Alex back. Remember that she shot her other team members while pregnant, so she was clearly handy with a gun. Also, was Ben’s comment- “when you hear whispers run the other way” the explanation as to why Danielle NEVEFR saw the others in her 16 years there?? If so, lame.
C.P.L. I agree with you that the draining the water to call smokey was totally lame.
Jonathan- I am with you about Danielle not remebering Ben. I know she is crazy, but she should have recognized ben and knifed him right in the net.
Was it just me or did Alex say to Ben something about I know you are going to kill John again? If so, I would not be surprised. Ben no longer has power over John, john clearly knows mor than him (like the room under the temple) and I bet he hates that and wants John dead. Poor Ben.
Biglostfan- good question of how John remember being killed by Ben, but Ben does not remember Sayid shooting him
Well, I need to watch again.
Why the hell when Rousseau´s crew in 88´ went down there by the temple they changed? We saw that the way went straight to the smoke monster “home” and we know the smoke monster doesn´t manipulate your senses, i´m assuming that because what we saw when Ben was down the temple wall! I also assuming that them temple is like a litte small village protected by the walls and of course Smokey! So this mysterious Temple “village” have to be a very exciting place what we should see soon, i hope!
And now again a question! Why didn´t we see ELLI (maybe aka Ms. Hawking). We saw Widmore in his 40´, 50´…..but they didn´t show or even mentioned once Elli which was in charge at least in 77´!!?? That pisssed me a little bit of!
The title of this episode “Dead is Dead” made not really sense to me, can someone explain me what does it means concerning to what happened in this ep.??!!??
Ohh…i´m really excited HOW Sun wanna find her husband Jin, which is living now in the 70´!! She can´t find him or Locke, because they had to bring them back with the time travelling (frozen wheel) that´s the only possiblity but i can´t imagine they would or at least Locke will turn the wheel again, because then they would be shippping throught time again, am i right??
Does somebody know an other possibility how they could bring Jack, Jin…the gang back to their real time – 07´/08´? I have honestly noooo idea!!
….ahh..sorry for writting so much, but the Lost fever packed me again….
Also do you guys recognized that Locke is now somehow an all-knowing person, but he never was before such an intelligent all-knowing person, he ws also the one who was serching for answer about the island, himself and his destiny on that island….and Now he knows everything, at least ít seemed so to me! Locke is really a very very important character in the show and i bet Locke & Jack will be play a much more bigger role in the further episodes! Locke -the believer, how he always was, but he was NEVER a real leader, but that changed now, i think! Jack -the “scientiest” an not believer changed now into the believer Locke always begging him to be and to beginn to believe in the island and their miracles, NOW they both are believer and Locke is a leader….BUT Jack bothers me a little bit, what´s his purpose now, because everybody said to him off the island that bad things happened because of him, Nonsense, it wasn´t Jack´s fault! However i´m curious to see what will happen with Jack!!
maybe that’s where Faradays been all this time, maybe he is trying to figure a way to get pack to the future and he is the one who ends up building the time machine. everyone keeps talking about turning the wheel being the only way back but I disagree. I think when we see him in 95 at Oxford he is trying to replicate the time machine that he built on the island, with someones help. maybe Radinszy?
could explain why Ms Hawking wasn’t too concerned about faraday when Desmond told her he needed her help, maybe she already knew what was going to happen because she had already lived though it.
I mean if you really think about it, did faraday look that different in 95 than he did in 2005 when they landed on the island. I mean theres at least 10 years in between that time and I know I don’t look the same as I did 10 years ago.
Locke is not Locke anymore. He is part of the island now, that is why he knows so much about the island and knows exactly where to go.
VERY GOOD EPISODE…AND VERY GOOD COMMENTS!!!
I personally have been feeling a sence of relief that somethings seem to head in the direction of answers.
I feel there is more to the story of Widmore being banished as we will find out the significance of mating off the island. (My hope is that it will also lead to Widmore or the discovery of Widmore also finacialually supporting the DI…if so it will support my theory on his backing of the DI …I mean why was he leaving so much). I also feel this episode indirectly gives us more insight into that it really maybe Ben or maybe not Ben that came with the idea of the purge….I am still sticking with Ben was not the mastermind of the purge. I don’t know but to me there seemed to be more behind the statement of Ben saying to Locke…”Locke…you don’t approve?” when Locke was asking or commenting on the Others taking over the barracks. But it could just be me.
How about Ben saying he know idea about the picture…LOLOLOL….BIG LIE!!!!!!! It will be good to see Ben kiss up to Locke…LOL.
The Ceasar character why in the world did the even have this charactor???? and will he brought back?
No doubt Ilana is with Widmore and I agree with the riddle being a code. Plus it may support Widmore telling Locke that there is going to be a war.
I still feel Ben is good…strayed the path…but still good and I feel this episode supports this notion even more
As far as a main charactor dying by the end of the season I am going with Hurley or Juliet.
As for now I need to watch the episode again…was it me or did it seem like there maybe a bunch of easter eggs undetected.???
C.P.L– I 100% agree with you about Locke being totally changed. He is confident, has no fear, and is no longer Ben’s unwitting pawn. It was comical seeing Ben trying to manipulate and shake him. But, it was not happening. Ben even seemed despearate because it was clear that John no longer needed him and had the upper hand. Ben is finally getting his due. I almost feel sorry for him.
it also seems to me that Ben doesn’t want any one to be the leader but him.
I mean he got Widmore off the island so he could prusumebly be in charge.
and then he kills Locke and evidently accoring to manifesto Alex he wanted to do it again.
And we don’t know what happened to Ellie, but she’s not on the island anymore, I would assume Ben has something to do with this as well.
He did kill his dad to with no remorse. speaking of that remember when we saw Ben in the van with his father and he pulls the canister plug and kills him? well if he is not with the dharma anymore why did it seem then that his father was not suprised to see him in the van.
is what we are seeing different than the way it happened the first time, or have things changed?
Boglostfan- Thanks for confirming that Alex said Ben wanted to kill john again. I thought I heard that but was not sure.
I agree too seeing Locke so confident and falling into his destiny…well lets just say…about TIME!!
Now…what the hell is up with JACK?!
Good question Jason. How did Jack go from being the main guy to having a back seat?? I have to assume that he is going to have a big role later, and will reuinte with daddy.
C.P.L:
– Dead is dead refers to Locke.
He is not John Locke anymore.John Locke as we know him is dead. He is now sort of a reincarnation of the previous Locke, he seems to speak for the island, with a knowledge about it that Ben never had.It was weird that both times Ben was waiting for the monster John disapeared, in the barracks and in the temple.Intriguing that John as a child made a drawing of smokie.
- Maybe what happened to Rosseau´s crew is that they were indeed dead, and what she saw was the monster disguised as them, like he did with Yemi and Alex.
Biglostfan
– At the time of the purge Ben was definetely living with the dharma and not with the others.They still have to show how did he return to the DI , since he aparently was living with the others at that time he got Alex.And also how Ethan ended up with the others at the time. By the way, i tought that it was a bad choice of actor for young Ethan, who i am sure had blue eyes, and that boy had brown eyes. Also, when Ethan first met the losties, season 1, if he was born in 1977, he had 27 years old, but the actor has 46 years old in real life, strange.
– About Ben remembering stuff, it seems that he remembers being brought to the temple, like he told John. He also remebers his mother, or what is like not having a mother, and i guess thats why he couldnt kill Rosseau and Penny.
Also , i guess Ben didnt really know that John would be alive. He seemed really surprised.
Alex told him she knew he was planning to kill John again.
I guess Ben was just waiting for the right time to try and do it.
“The fact that John Locke is walking around this island… scares the living hell out of me!” Hey, brilliant episode I thought, although too much was crammed into 50 minutes.
First off, I liked how Ceasar was blown away by Ben within five minutes of the opening credits – it was unexpected and got rid of a superfluous character, a red herring at that. Kinda similar to Paulo and whatshername.. plus it re-established Ben’s badass credentials.
Ben whining to Locke about “The Knowing” – VERY much reminded me of Ben talking to Locke in season 4 when they (and Hurley) were searching for the cabin and Ben said “I used to have dreams” – even then he suspected that Locke has a greater connection to the island and he (Ben) was being phased out.
Widmore was tracking the Oceanic 6 and filled the plane to Guam with his people… and some guns. Ben knew this (that’s why he tried to help them open the box full of guns on the beach at the start of the episode) and that’s why he wanted off the smaller island ASAP.
(Speaking of Charles W, I liked how they managed to find an actor who looked just like he would have done aged 40(ish) at the start of the episode)
One other thing – someone said that when Ben said he didn’t know Jack, Hurley and Kate were part of Dharma he was lying. Well – not necessarily… young Ben didn’t remember anything immediately getting shot by Sayid, and that’s a common factor with traumatic events. He still has to recover before going back to camp Dharma, and that could take days, in which time… well we know The Incident is coming up in just a few episodes time.
Perhaps young Ben never met Jack, Kate and Hurley in the past because before he gets back to the DI the incident happens and… well, he never gets to meet them.
(By the way, I reckon inside the temple back in the present are… Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sawyer, Miles, Juliet, Jin and Faraday – EXACTLY the same age as they were in the 1970s… because I think they will become timeless and un-ageing, just like Richard Alpert, and will hide in the temple for thirty years until John Locke lets them out again in the present…
I might be wrong of course…
My guess for next weeks episode…Locke is in the body bag… anyone else
Guys,
Great comments Hell YEAH!!! Great episode, I LOVED that Caesar got it and what an apology from Ben, nice one.
The guns in the plane didn’t surprise and neither did Lapidus getting knocked out, maybe he does know more than he lets on…..
Sun was sort of a surprise but I didn’t mind watching her though.
The smoke monster I sort of like,
Everyone keeps saying Jacob is telling them to do stuff but no one questions him to see if it’s in the cards,maybe the smoke monster is Jacob.
I think the body in the bag for next weeks episode will be Sayid and the others had killed him thinking he was a spy.
Where the hell is Faraday? He could have built the space shuttle Discovery by now.
Jason– Why do you think it is Locke in the body bag??
totallylost – i am with you on that one! Ben should be given an award for his performance on this particular episode.
besides that, very good episode! interesting to see a bit more about Ben/Alex story. Only regret is that we didnt see what happened with Penny. I imagine Ben succeeded in killing her or maybe killing the baby, that’s why he asked sun to tell him he was sorry. but im eager to see what happened exactly.
This Alana and Ceasar characters remain still very intriguing. thats a shame Ceasar died so early, interesting choice of name as well, im sure there must be a hidden sense to it. Alana definitely knows more about the island than she appears to
Jonathan, re post 20. i agree on your theory of Ben not dying because repenting of his sins. Plus Eko was a bit disturbed…
however i dont agree with you that’s the reason Ben told sun to tell desmond to forgive him, just for shooting him? he appeared very alive to me when he attacked Ben.
We did not get to see the whole story with Penny, Desmond and Ben so to me something happened after Ben fell in the water. Now we know why he was in such a bad shape when he entered the plane… my guess is, he shot penny or their son…
post 24 – i dont think that either Ben, the others or the DI made the door. on the door you can see some hyerogliphes too (sorry if its not written that way) or some characters made directly on the stone. At the temple you can equally see some of these (Anubis and the monster) so for me this is much much ancient. Ben looked like he didnt know these hyerogliphs
penny is def getting killed. ben will get the gun from the water and reappear and kill them. no doubt in my mind. could be anyone in that body bag but i like how hurley tells miles to talk to the dead person. he says to him i believe isnt that your power or why you are here. so that is def miles reason for being there. talking to dead people or to talk to this person specifically….could be very cool.
i think sayid makes the most sense but it could be anyone. maybe bens dad? lepedus?
Ben’s father died in 1992, Lapidus is in 2007.
They are in 1977.
wait… where are you getting this body bag idea ??? The one adam mentions. i saw no body bag in the episode…
Oh got it… its in next episode. never mind !
hey guys
I think that we might be reading way to much into the scene with Ben Desmond and Penny.
Why would the writers make a point to show us that Ben couln’t kill young Alex or his mother, and show him again hesitating whilst attempting to kill Penny, if he was going to rise from the water all beaten up by Desmond ( my favorite scene from the night) and shoot Penny.
I honestly think what we saw is truely all that happened. Ben told Sun to tell Desmond he’s sorry because he had intentions on killing Penny and he shot at Desmond.
I just think they are trying to show us that Ben isn’t as cold blooded as they have made him out to be.
Oh and also, I had this idea,
could it be possible that the reason women can’t have children on the island is because Whidmore left the island and had a baby . like maybe there is some sort of rule that if you are the leader of the island and you leave and have a baby off the island that possibly the island would then be cursed or something like that, where it will not allow any more children to be born because the leader disobeyed Jacob’s rules. ( or commandments)
kinda like how nuns give theirself to the Lord and vow not to have sex, and if they do they are banished from the commune.
biglostfan-…..Thank you for saying it for me…for seasons now I have claimed that Ben is good and I feel this supports this theory of showing that Ben actually has a heart and is much more complex then the writters have eluded to the audience in thinking that he is “bad”. He not only took Alex…but he took Alex so Roussau could stay alive or that whe really was no threat. Again…I feel that it will be revealed that Ben did not master mind the Purge…however, he may have had a alternative to the original idea of the Purge to gain a certain leadership.(contengency plan). I know most are tired of me mentioning Ben overal as Good but strayed the path for selfish reasons at times… but I stand firm in this belief.
With that all bein said…..
Totallylost….what makes me think its Locke in the body bag???? It’s a stretch….only because Miles says…”ok now tell me what really happened”. And it just seems like it would be the most unpredictable thing…but also the figure he is walking up on kind of looks like Lockes profile…
Jason
What if Miles is referring to the incedent? perhaps the person in the body bag is someone who was involved is this.
we still don’t really know what excatly happened in the indecedent. (Sorry my spelling sucks) So if this is true then I doubt is has anything to so with Locke. and isn’t Locke in a different time period. I think it will be someone in the current DI 77 time frame.
it also could have something to do with the time machine. we still don’t know where Faraday is, so it could possibly be him or Pierre Chang, we did get a glimpse of him in the previews.
it would be interesting to see Locke in that bag though.
Oh something else I was thinking about too.
remember last seasons finale, when we saw Locke in the casket? well didn’t they have a couple more alternate endings? wasn’t Sawyer in one of those. I wonder if they did that just to throw us off or were these other characters really interchangeble like they suggested. to me it only makes sense that it would be Locke in that casket. why would they do this to us.
Biglostfan. I agree with you that what we saw in the Penny and Desmond scene was it. Ben rising from the water and killing Penny after he just got jacked by Desmond– hard to believe. But I guess anything is possible with Lost.
Jason- I also agree with you that Ben may not be all bad after all. Yes, he has bad qualities, he’s a murderer, and a compulsive liar, but a purposeful one, instead of a scandalous one. I guess time will tell. As for the body bag, not sure how it could be locke if Locke and Miles are in different time frames. But, time will tell on that too.
Im glad im not the only one who was glad to see ceasar die. He was annoying as hell. Now if someone would shoot that Ilana bitch.
We know now that this is the other group that shot at Sawyer and Co. on their canoe in the beginning of season 5. The mystery of who got shot is what remains now. Was it maybe Ilana, or that big oaf-ish fuck that points the gun at Frank or just some random?
Also, one idea I had on how Locke and Sun would get reunited with their friends in 1977 definitely revolves around turning the wheel.
Im not sure which time period would need to have the wheel turned, but my guess as of now is that the 1977 folk would have to do it in order to correct their situation seeing as how they are the ones who have been experiencing the time travel from the beginning.
But then again, Christian told Sun that in order to find Jin she had a long journey ahead of her. So this leads me to believe that there is a way for her to get from 2007 to 1977. Again, presumably by turning the wheel, but who would have to do it? And if the wheel was turned, will it surely bring the 2 time periods together?
Im just kinda “thinking out loud” here, but let me know if anyone agrees, disagrees, has theories or any feedback,
Re; post 60,
Biglostfan,
I agree, the Desmond/Penny – Ben showdown ended with Ben being beaten and thrown into the water. I think afterward Ben got out of the water, and Des kept an eye on him to make sure he left, and then went and got medical attention for his wound.
As for Bens apology, i agree that he was apologizing simply for shooting Demond. Someone above posted the notion that the writers are trying to make him more compassionate with this episode, and seeming that he is not simply a cold bastard 24/7. I think you hit that right on the mark.
Biglostfan,
yes the season 4 finale alt. endings were simply shot with Sawyer and Desmond in the casket as to prevent any spoilers from being leaked by the crew or any journalists prior to the show beig aired. There was no signifigance to any of them except for Locke!!
big lost fan, i disagree. Ben wanted revenge above Widmore, so he definitely killed someone, or penny or the baby. he is Ben after all !
sorry, post 60 by the way
SOME WEIRD THOUGHTS:
– First, Faraday is not on the body bag. They are in 1977.
In 1978 he films that video with Pierre Chang, the one i posted sometime ago, where Chang talks about the future, Bush and the internet.And in that video, Chang claims that the Dharma Iniciative is gathered again.
– So i think that Ilana may be sent to the island by this new dharma iniciative that wants to take over . Maybe this is the war that Widmore was talking about and not the purge.
– About Desmond, i risk to say that he might not be so well as he looked. I dont think Ben killed Penny, but Desmond got hurt, even though it didnt look like, and he may have to return to the island to be healed. I know it sounds senseless.
– I still think there’s something about that guitar case Hurley was taking in the plane.What was on it?
– I guess we will be seing Jacob in many events that happened in the past of the losties.
thanks Moohaha,
I was sure it was an indication that they would kill off Sawyer. I’m glad I am wrong. it just wasn’t making any sense to me that they would put someone else in that casket.
I can’t wait to see more about Miles. I like his character. Miles and Hurley make a good pair.
I agree about miles and hurley, they bring a little humor to the show. although i didnt like miles last season. He was such a prick, but he has grown on me
Here’s what I want to know: Where (when) are Bernard and Rose and everyone else from the Oceanic flight? And where is Alvar Hanso?
An episode to help my theory that Ben isn’t a totally bad guy, bout time too.
The title was ‘dead is dead’ as Ben said so I hope the writer confirm to us if Locke is either alive or dead by the end the the series.
I’m still not sure how Locke is going to save the 77 guys, do you think he will have to go back to the donkey wheel?
all – how can you say that ilana has been sent by widmore if she dont know Lapidus ??? they are on the same team.
Someone mentionned before that the line she said to Lapidus “what lies beneath the statue” is the same code as “what did a snowman say to another snowman” (or stg like that) and it could be used as a recognition code, however Ilana and Lapidus being sent by Widmore would imply they know each other or at least they’ve acknowledged one another.
just a thought
hey scott one thing! the site is taking a LOT of time to charge! is it because it is too loaded with archive posts or stuff like that ? really to open it it takes a least 1 minute and for the posts to load, same thing… can you have a look?
thanks !!
biglostfan: I like your insight…I agree with your point as well aaaannnd it makes much more sense…however…Can’t wait to see though..
Moohaha___ I completely forgot about the shouting at sawyer and them…You have to be right…that is Ilana and them…I recall mentioning weeks ago that it may be Ceasar and her…but obviously..not Ceasar.
Karen- I agree the with your insight on the Ben Penny scene.
JJOlsen-I don’t know either! and I want to know!!!!!!!!
Moohaha- Re post 67– regarding the time correction issue, I was thinking that the 1980 losties will go forward in time to 2007 because they have to reunite with the other losties, including Rose and Bernard. It would seem strange to get Sun and John back in time, to then bring them forward. I guess a big assumption for me is that they will not stay in the past, and one more turn of the wheel is what is needed. I am wondering if that happens after the incident, or is the entire theme of season 6, along with everyone finding their purpose.
One of the biggest mysteries for me is what is Jack’s purpose. Remember, “wwwweeeee hhhhhaaaaavvvvveeee ttttttoooo gggggoooo bbbaaaaaaaaaak.” He was so sure about it, and even having Kate slap him across the face did not deter him. But this season, he has been a wet blanket. I don’t get it. I know he needs to find Dad to resolve his daddy issues, so maybe that is his purpose.
By the way, Moohaha, is Moohaha your name or a code name?? Just curious. I have the same question for Wolowitz.
Jonathan– Good thoughts in post 71. And, to all who said it, good riddance prick Ceasar. Who died and put him in charge.
Last question, where does Sayid fit into all of this?? And, where is he??
One more– what is the story about Henry Gale and the hot air baloon?????
Last one, I swear. If Illana and crew were headed to guam to get to the island, can we assume that they knew how to get there?? Were they going to get on a freighter and go, because if the last freighter made it, I am assuning another can. Something is not right about that.
Totallylost – agreed! what the f… is Jack’s purpose ??? Jack is in my opinion a big jerk he doesnt have a personality of his own, to my opinion he dont have any purpose to go back to the island but his life was so shitty outside that he realized he was better in the island. what a dork honestly ! he went from being a GREAT! character to a little mouse.
Also, let’s try and figure moohaha and wolowitz code names! moohaha’s to me sounds like a big laugh, like the thriller one at the end of the song
and wolowitz to me must be his last name 
i love guessing! mine is just my name so not really much fun ;(
i think that the guys who were in 1977 are going to have to get to the present time in 2007.
as for ben he may become good (although i doubt it)but he has not been good. he has been a bad guy for this entire show. if he becomes a good guy it is only from this point on.
he will def die or become a martyr at some point.
what will annoy me is that whole scene with alex…..i may have posted this earlier so sorry.
they built this whole thing up with ben getting judged etc…
they spent 2-3 episodes on the build up and not until the end of the episode did it actually happen. so then alex comes into the smoke monster and says what she says. ben seems to realize he needs to change his mindset.
NOW
If he goes on to become a dick head again and lies, manipulates and does the wrong things then the build up to that scene and the scene itself means absolutely nothing and is a complete waste of time. so i hope they stick to ben becoming good and following locke…..the first hint that he doesnt or he maintains his lying by omission BS then i will be annoyed.
Karen– Thanks for the laugh. My name here just refelcts how I feel about the show and its mysteries!!! I guess we have to wait for Moohaha and Wolowitz to give us a reply!!!!
Adam– I am with you. The build up for Ben getting his due in the previews, and then just getting a warning from dearly departed Alex was a letdown. I guess the lesson is to try not to read too much into the previews. As for Ben becoming good, he did have the “I’ve seen something miraculous” look on his face just like John did when he looked at Smokey, and Echo befoe he got beat down. So, maybe he has changed.
Hey Karen- One more name I need to add to Moohaha and Wolowitz mysteries: Scoppie. What’s up with that???
wow guys im so glad i found this site!
who’s in the body bag?
remember the 1st scene of this season – Chang was called to the Orchid b/c someone got hurt when they were drilling thru the stone wall. An ultrasound picture showed the donkey wheel. A worker was on the ground and looked dead. I think he’s in the bag and Miles “talks” to him and gets info on the energy behind the stone wall. Then he shares that info with Faraday and he figures out how to do the time travel.
Also, most people keep saying that Locke is in 2007. Wouldn’t it be 2008? They crashed in Fall 2004 and spent over 100 days on the island. That would push them into 2005. Then they were gone for 3 years – back on island in 2008.
Kris- you may have something there.
Kris, they showed us Sawyer and Co. in dharma days and dated it 1974.
Then they showed ”3 years later”-1977 – .
When Locke e Co apeared,it was written ”thirty years later”, so it makes 2007.
Scott, i am sorry to say, but i prefered the layout this site had before.
In the first page we can’t see how many comments were posted unless we click in the comments icon and once we get to the comments they have no numbers anymore.
The white letters seem to scramble in the black background.
.
Next episode – Some loke it hoth.
This title plays with that film of Marylin Monroe, Some like it hot, and with Starwars, where there was a planet with this name, covered with snow and ice.
Its focused in Miles, so maybe the title refers to his abilities to speak with the dead(cold).
I dont know if in this episode it will be revealed that he is Pierre Chang’s son, but thats something that many of us have said before.
I just watched this episode a second time, and I am sure one of you lost scholars already said this, but I am pretty sure that Alex was Jacob. Or, I should say, just like in other times, Jacob speaks to people through other people. Case in point, Echo through Yemi (although it ended badly for him), Harper spoke to Julietee when she needed to find Daniel and Charlette at the Tempest, Horrace spoke to John when John needed to find the cabin, Walt spoke to John when he was shot, and Christian spoke to Jack to help him find water and to John to show him the wheel. I guess the list goes on. I feel that the answers to the mystery of Jacob are coming soon.
If, as it appears, that the next episode is Miles centered, he definately moves up the death watch list.
The name is a reference to the big bang theory character as I thought being on a lost website is pretty nerdy, therefore I should have a nerd’s name. Plus I am also a little nerdy sex pest.
Nothing more interesting than that I’m afraid.
Scott is it possible to have peoples post numbers like on the old layout as that feature made it easier to answer other peoples questions directly.
I think Moohaha’s name is like when Dr Evil in austin powers laughs. But we will just have to wait to find out.
Thanks Wolowitz I never would have guessed that!!! One mystery resolved. Still waiting for Moohaha and Scoppie!!!!
Scott– The site looks much better with the white background and is so much easier to read.
3 days to go . . .
ADAM: I agree!!! they better not do that with Ben… will be pissed too.
KRIS: HOLY CRAP GOOD CALL!! I may have to retract my theory!
i agree with totallylost, the sites looks good like this AND you can see the number of posts when you are in the homepage. i also encourage the others to post a picture, its simple.
Scoopie must be because he loves scoops!
I have another one: CPL – the L by the end must mean Lost
The site looks the same to me….
Maybe it is Pierre Chang in the body bag and Miles finds out that it is his dad!! That’s my new guess. Then Miles would know he had been on the island before…and born there.
I guess it could be anyone.
The title reference is interesting but I think the last couple titles to the show have just been rather insignificant lines during the show. So my guess is someone says..”some like it hot” but i don’t think it will mean much more.
Jason & Karen -
What do the names Jason and Karen reference???? lol
Sorry guys. I was just checking out a new layout and forgot to change it back..Whoops!
I think Moohaha could be a reference to finding Nemo. when nemo got in the docs office fish tank the other fish did a ritual like thing to induct him into their group.
Shark bait, shark bait ,moohaha.
Sorry guys been on holiday and I hope you all had a great Easter;
Big lost fan- on #61 the people we have seen to have kids so far has been the Dharma folks not the others so they may not be able to have kids. Remember when Juliette was brought in they had already taken over the camp and the purge had already happened. Claire had her kid she wasn’t from there and Sun was conceived on the island but delivered elsewhere.
Moohaha- on #66 Caeser was annoying as hell and good rediance, the turning the wheel thing I totally agree with but I think Sun will have to go back to bring the others forward.
Johnathan- on # 71 I agree I don’t think it’s faraday in the bag I think it’s one of the Dharma guys and they are trying to find out what happened to him. Maybe to see if the Hostiles killed him so to speak, but also it could be Sayid and they are trying to find out who killed him. Also I thought the guitar was on the incase Hurley ran into Charlie so he could have a guitar, he had no idea that he was going back to 1977.
Totallylost- on #91 I agree that Alex was Jacob, Just like Echo’s brother was the smokemonster also. I think it(he) wanted to see if they were sincere and if they should live. Echo apoligized for nothing therefore he was lunchmeat and Ben was sorry and he lives.
I don’t think Ben killed Penny he swam off licked his wounds and went away. I think he couldn’t take a child away from it’s mother again therefore he couldn’t shoot her, I also think he will let Locke lead or they will kill him.
Sorry for the long post I missed you guys but as always some GREAT theories.
I do believe Locke will lead Sun to the wheel and she will turn it to go back and lead the others to the present.